Is this considered "cheating" ? It's kind of long. I apologize. Looking for a female point of view.


Anonymous
on Jun 02, 2009 @ 12:24 pm

I've browsed over this site a little bit today and noticed it was a site meant for women, but I could really use some advice... 
Hopefully, you ladies can help me out. I would greatly appreciate it.
I'm sorry in advance for the long story and if it's hard to read.


Here we go... (I'm gonna use fake names)

(Minor detail: I "hooked up" (no sex) with Vicky in 2004-5. She is one of Michelle's best friends and is CURRENTLY dating MY best friend, Dave. [no one knows about the hookups between Vicky and I besides a few people. Dave doesn't even know, Michelle does] Also, Michelle was attending college 2 hours away from home where I was. So, we only saw each other maybe once every 2-3 weeks for a weekend)

Anyway,
 
I started dating Michelle in June of 2006. She was never the relationship type. (Not a whore/slut or anything.. just never wanted to give someone else that "power" to control how her feelings were)  As the summer went on, our relationship flourished and only had minor arguments here and there. She is very self-conscious and insecure. (no reason to be, she is flat out gorgeous and one of the most influential and all-around amazing people I have ever met) As like any girlfriend, she worried about my ex's/hookups. I consider myself a flirt, but not as much anymore.

Fast forward to the end of March of 2008. We had some issues about my ex girlfriend contacting me and us hanging out with Vicky. (I wanted nothing to do with my ex or Vicky. I seriously was talking to no one else but Michelle) 

This is where it gets good.. The day before Michelle leaves for spring break in Europe, she breaks up with me. Says she can't trust me and can't be with me anymore.

This sends me over the edge and causes me to go to the doctor for depression. I hated everything about my life and it just was the last straw. Started taking medication for it/seeing someone.

While Michelle was gone, by nature, I started talking to a classmate online. Let's call her Beth. All it was was harmless flirting. I just wanted that connection/attention from another girl. I had absolutely no intentions of doing anything with this girl.

Two weeks later, Michelle comes back and decides that she made a mistake and that she wants to give it another shot. Meanwhile, I am still talking to Beth online. (I remember calling her beautiful and implying that we should get lunch or dinner.)

For another month, I still talk to Beth until the class ends at the end of May. That's when I stopped talking to her.

In July of that year,  Michelle decides to look through my AIM conversations on my laptop and sees the convos with Beth and I. She breaks up with me on the spot and accuses me of cheating on her. (According to Michelle, "Cheating" is anything you hide from your significant other that is with another person) She isn't mad that I talked to Beth while we were broken up... she is mad that it continued for 2 months after we got back together.

For the next 3 months, Michelle hooks up with 2 other men. She is not like that at all. She was so upset that she went and did something that is so unlike her.

Anyway, in December of 08, we decided to get back together again and it started off well. However, when May of 09 rolls around, she goes and says that she can't forgive me for what happened and that she still has major trust issues with me. Break up again.



 
It's been a month now and I have tried doing everything I can do to get her back. She still tells me that she loves me and in her "perfect world," she would be able to get past her issues and that we could be together. We text/talk on the phone daily and still kiss/hug one another when we see each other.


I just don't know what to do anymore. I want no one else besides Michelle. I love everything about her. From head to toe, she is perfect. Besides that one mishap with Beth, I treat her like a princess and everyone, including Michelle, knows it. I would love to marry her someday. I haven't talked to Beth since the end of May of 08. It's been a year and I have absolutely no desire to even know where/what she is doing. I never liked her like that, but Michelle thinks I would have done something with her is Beth initiated the conversations.. (I did)

Michelle asks for space, but we can't even go a week without talking to one another. We're both miserable.

Is there any advice you might have for me? I would really appreciate it. Thank you for your time. It truly means a lot to me.
 


10 Replies


Marayna
Small, but important, mishap on Jun 02, 2009 @ 05:59 pm

I understand how all you wanted from Beth was that interaction with another woman to make you feel special. However, you should have ended that when you got back with Michelle. Granted, maybe you didn't want to hurt Beth's feelings, or maybe you didn't want to let go of that attention and got a bit greedy. I assume you didn't even like Beth? Because if you did, then you did emotionally cheat on her.

It was a mistake and all you can do is tell Michelle that all you care about is her (which I'm sure you already have, multiple times). It still hurts me sometimes when I think about other women that my boyfriend has interacted with - but in time, they fade away and become incredibly irrelevant - she will eventually see that too.

It seems like you adore this woman. I obviously don't know the full story, nor do I know her side of it, but I wouldn't give up or let her give up on you guys.
Reply

Hopeless28
original poster. on Jun 02, 2009 @ 06:32 pm

I'm the original poster, didn't mean to post it Anonymously. 

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I just don't know how to approach the situation anymore. She asks me for space, but if she sends me a text and I don't respond, she automatically thinks that I am with another girl.

There is NO other girl. I don't talk to Beth, never even liked her.. She was pretty, sure... but i'm allowed to think other people are pretty. As long as I don't act on it. I also got rid of my one ex she was worried about. Blocked her on Facebook, took her out of my phone, etc. Been 4 months since I've even talked to her. And as for Vicky, I only talk to her when I see her and Dave together. That's it.

I need to find a way for her to forgive me and see that I'm not this man-whore that she makes me out to be.
Reply

TigerLilly
Another view on Jun 03, 2009 @ 12:47 am

I'm going to post something different here as my views on relationships can sometimes differ than a lot of girls.

You're blaming yourself and I don't think it's completely your fault. I think Michelle is what I would term as "drama". I think she likes drama and I'm not a big fan of it. She broke up with you 3 times. The first was on her end, the 2nd she blamed on your, the 3rd she blamed on you again on the same reason for #2. That's a lot of times to break up.

Again drama can be seen in this last post. She wants space but at the same time she wants your attention and either way she freaks out a bit. She's also kinda already controlling you and who you interact with. She doesn't like you talking to Beth, you get rid of her. She doesn't like your ex, you get rid of her. Where do you draw the line? If you're with her you won't be allowed to communicate with any other females? What if she doesn't like your male friends?

I would personally forget about her. If this is what she's like now I think it's going to be like this forever. I've seen so many guys go through similar things. I think she wants this emotional roller coaster in her life and if it's not there she creates it. I think you and her will probably continue through similar things for the rest of your relationship. Even if this thing with Beth is resolved she will probably bring it up back later or it'll be something else.

But most likely my advice to forget about her is not the one you're looking for because you care about her. So here's my second suggestion. You'll obviously need to talk to her and I have no idea how you're going to get that to happen since I don't know the people involved. Both you and her will have to work at the relationship and if she's not inclined to then there's really no point. If you want to work at it I'd suggest trying to get back on her good side little by little. When you hang out with her and your other friends, talk to her more each time so she becomes comfortable with you again. Maybe eventually you can talk to her 1-on-1 via the internet or on the phone or on Facebook or even in person. Flirt with her a little, give her a little attention (but not too much). I think you'll eventually grow closer and you can bring this back up but it could take awhile.

Anyway that's pretty generic advice but that's the best I can do right now.
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Marayna
Not drama... on Jun 03, 2009 @ 10:24 am

I have to kindly disagree - I really don't think this girl likes the drama. What it sounds like is that she's really insecure, which in return creates drama. She wasn't jealous of Beth just because it was another female - she read the conversations of the two of them flirting and him ultimately asking her out for dinner. I'd be a bit upset if I read that while I was dating somebody - I think most people would. The difference is that it seems like Michelle can't get over it - where most of us would eventually see the incredible man in front of us, she still sees Beth and the other women.

So yes, that can be a problem and if she's like that now, it's likely she'll be like that for the entire relationship. So it's your judgement call - do you want this type of relationship? We can tell that you love this woman, but will you be happy in the long-term?

I would never tell somebody to leave another person unless it was abusive. It's not my place to make that kind of judgement call. All we can do is offer advice and hope you come to the right conclusion, no matter what the answer. Both of your happiness is what's important.
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TigerLilly
A good point on Jun 03, 2009 @ 01:30 pm

I think the insecurity comment makes sense but I wouldn't necessarily say the insecurity is the only factor leading to drama. I think it's 2 factors that do relate to each other - she is insecure and she does seem to create drama on its own and out of insecurity. (Again remember I have no idea what's going on but this is just what I think).

If we're addressing 2 different things here that affect each other let's start with the insecurity. This is more her problem than yours. Is this the main factor keeping you guys together? You're going to have to work really hard to gain back her trust and help damper her fear of abandonment. I already can see that she feels threatened by other girls and has trouble moving past things like this. I think you will probably have to constantly address this issue to make her feel secure but you can only do so much and again it's to what extent. What will make her feel "insecure" and how to solve it, might not be what you want - like kinda controlling who you interact with. But the big thing is she will have to work to trust you too. You can only do so much but in the end she also has to work at it. Is she willing to do that?

As for the drama issue, I still think she likes it and the insecurity just ramps it up even more giving her more reasons to create drama. Why was she looking through you AIM conversations anyway? Did she even ask you? Do you care that she invaded your privacy? Was it harmless? Was she looking for something to create some drama? Did she already not trust you and was looking for evidence (this would relate to the insecurity thing)? Then she wants space but freaks out when you don't text her and you guys talk a lot - very contradictory.

You said n your original post that she said in a perfect world she will be able to get past this issues and things would be great. You can try to help her but I think ultimately she's the one working past them and she might not be able to.
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Ali de Bold
My 2 Cents on Jun 03, 2009 @ 05:04 pm

Sounds like you're in a tough spot. I think the best thing in this situation is time. You both obviously still have feelings for each other, which means there is still hope.

From what you have said, I agree with Marayna that continuing to talk to "Beth" when you got back together was a mistake. It's not insecure for a woman to expect her boyfriend to stop a flirtatious relationship with another woman... it's respect. This doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to speak to other women or have female friends, it just means you aren't telling them they are beautiful and investing energy flirting with them.

That being said, what's done is done. Now you both need to find a way to move forward.

This may sound corny, but have you considered writing her a letter explaining how you feel about her? Sometimes a letter can be better than a conversation because there are no interruptions, no arguments, just how you feel on paper. Don't elaborate or try to be poetic/romantic, just be real. She'll appreciate that.

You also need to be totally honest with yourself if you would be willing to give up the flirty ways for her since that is clearly a deal breaker for her. If you are, then write her that letter, give her some space but let her know every week that you are thinking about her and you miss her. Also, flowers never hurt ;)

If however, you feel this is something that defines you that you aren't willing to give up, you will be happier in a relationship with a woman who has no problems with a flirtatious and/or secretive boyfriend...
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VitruvianWoman
Gotta disagree on Jun 08, 2009 @ 03:53 pm

I wrote a big long tirade about this ex-girlfriend of yours, but decided not to post it. Honestly I know her type and just stay away. She's going to keep blaming you for things you haven't done, or things that were done when you weren't in a relationship, just so she has a reason to be mad. Wouldn't be surprising if she also flirted while on spring break (when you two were broken up). In that case, it'd be very hypocritical of her. Lots of girls think they're allowed to flirt and accept compliments, yet when their guy does it, it's a no-no. You said you didn't like Beth, didn't want to date her and just complimented her. There's nothing wrong with compliments. It's not cheating.

Also, about her snooping in your AIM conversations? That's nosy and just plain creepy, vile, and disgusting. She was just LOOKING to find something to use against you. I would hate it if someone started poking around. What next? Look through your e-mails? Steal your phone to look at your messages? Start quizzing friends on what you're doing? Eek, just creepy.

I say drop her, she's obviously making you feel like crap, you need a girl that trusts you and that you can also trust in return. Someone who doesn't make you feel like you have to sit by your phone 24/7 or you'll get a rant about how you might be "with another girl", someone who doesn't make you feel guilty about going out because she thinks you *might* be flirting, etc. Someone who trusts you to do what you want without HER thinking you're doing something wrong every second. Someone who doesn't make YOU feel like you're doing everything wrong.

I don't know how it's going to help your depression if you've got a girl who's making you feel like you should be blamed for every single problem in the relationship. That you should be blamed for her insecurities.

I just say move on, there are plenty of fish in the sea (how cliche). Don't keep trying for something that has obviously failed often, and doesn't seem to be getting better. If she isn't even trying to trust you more, she never will, and you might as well just let it go. I know you love her, but this just sounds miserable.
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Anonymous 3546
Any way she would consider theraypy? on Jun 12, 2009 @ 01:14 pm

Hi,
I agree with the posters above that said you should have ended the conversation with Beth when you resumed your relationships with Michelle, however it is in the past and we all know you can't change that.

It seems like you are in a cycle where she begins to feel insecure you break up, you don't like being alone so you find someone to flirt with and she comes back.

I would say it at all possible Michelle may want to look at getting some counselling to deal with her insecurity. You, well it may be time to take break from dating and flirting and focus on a few other goals in your life. If you do this she will feel better about herself and you will still be single and have not gotten into any sticky situations by the time she comes back around.

Good luck.
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missortiz24
End it on Aug 28, 2009 @ 01:27 pm

Not going to write a long reply. You both need to just end it. Im sure she will continue to feel insecure and not trust you. Why have a relationship with constant fighting and no trust. If it did not work then its not going to work now. Best of luck
Reply

docmp
let trust n respect be the foundation for a strong relationship. on Sep 08, 2009 @ 04:00 pm

She checked ur msgs,and that was b'coz she does not trust you...and now in her mind she thinks she was right..coz the moment she was gone,even though u both had broken off,she thought u might be missing her n be miserable without her..but here u were trying to get attention from someone else..that says that if not her,anybody would be fine for u....most of the girls would think that way.

i suggest that u both build a very strong foundation of trust n respect for each other.
once this happens everything else would be fine. she will soon forget about all ur ex-es once she realises that all u both need is each other.
good luck to u :-)

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